Kerry was at a loss for words briefly. "Oh, I don't know, Eleanor...I mean..."

"Don't you dare say it," Eleanor cut her off. "Don't you dare say she hasn't changed, Kerry. We both know differently. You remember what it was like when you first started. You remember walking into meetings representing ops and having people cheer."

Kerry did remember that. "Mm." She nodded briefly. "Damn, I hated the place," she admitted. "I wanted to just throw up most afternoons."

Eleanor had the grace to look uncomfortable. "Anyway, it's been a huge difference, and even though some things probably got done faster the old way, I wouldn't trade for it. I used to dread staff meetings." She peered back into the lobby, which had started to empty. "She isn't intimidating the entire industry anymore, and yeah, we probably lost out because of it, but I don't care."

Kerry's brow creased. "You don't really think that, do you?" she queried. "That we lost sales because Dar isn't screaming at everyone all the time?"

"Well." Eleanor turned and leaned one shoulder against the wall. "It's tempting, isn't it? Easier to think it's because of that than because Jose and I aren't doing our jobs." A sardonic look crossed her face. "Nah, I don't really think that. The market's just turned toward smaller companies right now. Everyone thinks it's better economics."

"But it really isn't." Kerry relaxed. "In the long run."

"Mm." Her companion gave a half shake of her head. "Doesn't help my quarterly earnings statement though." She gave Kerry a wry look. "Want to go hear the old grump blow the new kids on the block away? They have no idea I volunteered her."

An irrepressible grin appeared on Kerry's face. "You've got a mean streak yourself, El." She gestured toward the hall. "Sure, let's go."

DAR PAUSED AT the edge of the open space, reviewing the small group of men clustered on a single step mini-stage. Two she knew slightly, senior technical managers in the industry she'd met earlier that year at a networking function, and three others whose names she'd heard around. All men, all in their thirties, all with that air of not quite management about them that technical people did tend to have; pleated chinos with sports jackets, or workmanlike suits.

Dar halted briefly to shed her annoyance at Eleanor, and then she eased her way through the last line of watchers and took the one step up onto the platform. "Afternoon, gentlemen."

The five men and the moderator turned at the sound of her voice. The two men who knew who she was immediately took on what Dar had always thought of as the 'smelling the dirty diaper attitude', and she realized it had been quite a while since she'd seen it.

It made her smile.

The moderator stepped forward and extended a hand. "Ah, Ms. Roberts. Glad you could join us."

Dar gripped his fingers in hers then released them. "Anytime," she drawled, turning her eyes on the two men nearest her. "Hello, John. How's that experiment with consumer grade switches going?"

The man she addressed winced. "We...ah...well, we went a different route with that one, Dar. Thanks for asking!" He turned to his companion. "Ted, you know Dar Roberts, don't you?"

"Uh...sure." Ted extended his hand gingerly. "We bumped into each other at the IEEE conference a couple months back...great presentation you did there."

"Thanks," Dar replied graciously, giving the other three a brief nod as the moderator made introductions. "So what's the deal with this? We talking about IP v6, or something really earth shattering like the latest security holes in SNMP?"

"Eh...hah." The moderator finished putting some stools in place for his guests. "Well, securing our networks was the topic...ah yes."

"Mm." Dar claimed the last stool on one side and settled onto it, letting her eyes run idly over the crowd as the rest of the speakers got into place. She spotted Shari's distinctive features near the back but let her eyes pass right over her, settling instead on the blond woman now perched on a nearby booth.

Kerry gave her a thumbs up. Dar rolled her eyes and crossed her arms, but directed a wink her partner's way nonetheless.

"Okay, folks." The moderator clapped his hands. "Let's get this debate going."

"Debate?" Dar chuckled. "Eleanor screwed up again. She picked the wrong one of us."

John leaned closer. "Sorry, did you say something, Dar?"

"No," Dar replied.

"The question we're posing here..." The moderator glared surreptitiously at them. "Are our networks safe?" he asked. "With all the stuff we've been hearing in the news lately...Internet sites hacked, credit cards stolen, drive by hacking...are you all worried? Are your networks safe?"

Dar watched the speakers glance at each other, waiting to see who was going first. "That's an idiotic question." She threw out the sentence to stir up a little fun.

"Wh...what?" the moderator stammered.

"That's an idiotic question," Dar repeated, a little slower for him.

"Do you really think anyone here is going to stand up in front of potential customers and their peers and say 'why no...my network's a positive sieve! Thanks for bringing it up!"

The other men on the platform chuckled a little and John nodded, gesturing in Dar's direction. "Yeah, what she said."

Discomfited, the moderator cleared his throat. "Okay, okay, I see your point. But what if..." He paused. "Okay, what if I brought a hacker up here, onto the platform, and he said he could break into any of your networks. What would you say to him?"

The other four looked at each other, and then in unison, they looked at Dar.

"Want a job?" Dar remarked, with a grin.

The entire crowd started laughing.

"Ms. Roberts, it's a serious question." The moderator desperately tried to yank control back.

Dar got up and stuck her hands in the pockets of her skirt. "Of course it is," she replied. "We all pump a significant portion of our collective budgets into hardening our networks." A half tilt of her head. "But to answer your question, no."

"No?"

"No, nothing's ever perfect." Dar shook her head. "You can put machinery and manpower into it until you're blue in the face, but somewhere there's gonna be a hole. There's too many places where it's possible and sometimes out of your control."

John nodded again. "Dar's right," he said, and then paused. "Well, of course, because Dar's always right, and we all know it."

The crowd laughed again. Dar responded with a relatively gracious smile. Her eyes caught a motion at the back of the crowd; the distraction turning out to be Shari having a somewhat animated discussion with Michelle.

They were arguing. Dar's eyebrows hiked, as she caught a gesture in her direction. But Michelle got a firm hold on Shari's arm and started pulling her away.

Hm. Dar's eyes slid to her left, seeing Kerry's head turned in that direction.

"But you know, we really have made some strides in that area...let me go over some of them," John went on.

"Wait a minute," a stocky man in a light gray suit interjected. "Lemme ask...hey, lady."

Dar gazed at him.

"You really hire hackers?" the man asked. "I mean, that's a big story...that ILS hires hackers." He turned and got agreement from those next to him. "As a customer, I don't know how I feel about that."

"You ever been compromised?" Dar asked.

"No...I mean, not that I know of," the man replied.

"Like you'd tell them?" Shari's voice cut through the crowd.

Out of the corner of her eye, Dar saw Kerry slip down from her perch and start through the crowd like a determined miniature cyclone. The romance of the motion appealed to her, and the chuckle it caused brushed the sound of Shari's voice from her ears. "Of course we'd tell them," Dar answered the question in an unruffled tone. "We've never had to."

"You didn't answer my question," the man in gray accused.

"What's your question?" Dar turned the tables on him. "Are you asking if I ever knowingly hired someone who had deliberately broken into someone else's computer systems?"

"Yes."

"Sure," Dar answered.

The other men on the podium were shifting away from her, putting some distance between them as if to disassociate themselves from the very idea.

"But only if they were successful at it," she continued. "I only hire the best. That's why our network..." her eyes went over the room, "has never been compromised."

"Never?" John blurted.

"Never," Dar said, with quiet certainty.

"I thought you said no network was perfect?" the moderator broke in.

"I did," Dar said. "But ours is as perfect as I can make it and it's never been compromised." She folded her arms over her chest. "That's why I've never had to tell a customer they've been hacked. Contractually, and legally, I would definitely have to."

"Okay, so..." The moderator glanced at the restive crowd. "Well, that's quite a claim."

"G'wan. Give it a try." Dar threw the challenge out. "Anyone out there got the guts to take us on?"

She looked over to where Shari had been, but the area was now only a hole in the crowd. Kerry had, ominously, also disappeared. "We get blasted all the time for being expensive stuffed shirts. Well, you get what you pay for and security doesn't come cheap."

"Bet your security manager's not loving you at the moment, " John muttered.

Dar gave him an amused look. "He'd lick his chops at the challenge."

"Okay, folks." The moderator finally decided to wrest control back again. "So this turned out to be a pretty interesting subject after all."